Scene Point Blank: So, steering back to this record, Not About To Die (Studio Demos 1977-1978)?
Colin Newman: Initially, it was a Record Store Day release. The problem with Record Store Day is that it is very nice to support independent retail and pinkflag has to be a responsible independent record label. Just because it is artist-run, it doesn't mean we can't behave like a responsible label. Supporting independent retail is very important or we just end up with Amazon and not much else. However, on the other side, there are some pretty heavy politics around RSD which can be quite depressing. There are a lot of people that don't live anywhere near a record shop and the record labels tend to put a premium price on the product. I always thought that the LP version is a very specialized release (RSD release). The full release is actually a straightforward cd/vinyl/digital release. But you give the shops the chance to sell the special release -- giving them a proper couple of months or more -- and then release another version giving everyone else the chance to buy it. Sure some people will complain because they paid much for it in Rough Trade. I am sorry about that but there isn't really much I can do for what those lifestyle-types of shops would charge. And nothing against Rough Trade -- great shop and nice people -- but they are selling a lifestyle. Ultimately though pinkflag’s view has to be “Let's celebrate the thing and make it available to everybody for whatever reason they want to consume it.”
Scene Point Blank: I wonder if it isn't just shops like Rough Trade, as if you go into shops now any new record release is $40. Gone are the days when a record was $5. People are buying these records and buying numerous copies and immediately flipping them on Discogs and doubling or tripling the price and suddenly that is the median for that release. Record stores now use Discogs to price their product at least in the used record market.
Colin Newman: Yes, there is a lot of dodgy practice, and according to a friend who runs a record store in Brighton, a lot of people buy records on RSD and never take them out of the shrink wrapping. They just listen to the music on Spotify. It is an independent win for the independent label because they make the sale and they the money from the sale of the record and get the streaming royalty from Spotify. So we really can't complain, haha.
This is an old phenomenon like when the Japanese were buying records in the ‘90s but didn't have a record player.
It is an object. Who are we to dictate why people buy anything, music included? I also feel quite strongly that vinyl snobbery is not something any musician should subscribe to. Your album does not sound better on vinyl than on somebody's phone. If they are listening on their phone using headphones and that person is making a connection to the music just allow them to make a connection the way that they can. Rather than saying, “No you have to listen to it on this fancy stereo from the vinyl to get the real experience.”
Scene Point Blank: I will listen to music in any form I can get it in. I still have 8-tracks, personally. I am also a collector so can appreciate the sentiment of collecting but I am not a person that buys not to listen to it. That being said, I did buy the Wire reissues on pinkglag and left them sealed because I own the originals, singles, and cds, haha.
Colin Newman: Yes, we rereleased everything when we reacquired the catalogue.
Format deaths are something that has been widely predicted. Cassettes still continue to go on. The death of vinyl never really happened and the death of the cd is not happening either.
I can't say that I have heard of anyone that still listens to 8-tracks but there might be people that are still releasing stuff on 8-tracks. I also haven't heard of anyone releasing stuff on DAT recently or minidiscs. I wouldn't put it beyond anyone to actually do it. I fail to understand why anyone would buy anything on cassette unless it was a very new band that can't afford to press vinyl and sell them at their gigs. However, you most likely get the SoundCloud address written on the cassette and the person streams it from their computer, haha. You don't need cassettes.
Scene Point Blank: A few years back I went to see the Buzzcocks and there was a band opening for them. I always like to support smaller opening bands. Anyways, I was at their merch table and I asked if they had any vinyl to which the kid excitedly exclaimed, “No, but we have these cassettes. They are great you can put them in your pocket and bring them to your friend's place to listen to them.” To which I exclaimed, “How many people do you think still own a cassette player, ha ha”...I did end up buying them!
Colin Newman: That means a little band who is probably getting paid 50 quid for the opening gig, they can sell a few cassettes and t-shirts and go away from the gig making a few friends and people might remember the name (unless the band is really stupid and doesn't put the name of the band on the cassette, haha). Essentially it is a bit of advertising: look, I went to the gig and got this cassette. It is economics and interesting but you should never deny anyone a chance to reach an audience with whatever they may have to sell.
Scene Point Blank: this is a little bit of an oddball question. Do you play, or did you play, an Eastwood guitar?
Colin Newman: Oh, yes. Most definitely.
Scene Point Blank: I had purchased one around the time of seeing you at a gig at Lee’s Palace in Toronto and I noticed that you were playing an Eastwood guitar. I felt my purchase was validated by seeing you play one.
Eastwood is Canadian and I spotted the owner of the company in the audience. I thought the fact that I had just bought one, you are playing one, and the owner of the company was at a Wire gig was a pretty cool connection.
Colin Newman: Yes, Mike Robinson! He is a really good guy. He listens to our show every week. Now he is sending me emails letting me know what tracks he really likes, haha!
They are the model of how they do their guitars. Their success is based on the fact that the big guys like Fenders and Les Pauls brought out these entry-level models which were super cheap and super crap. Their reputation took a bit of a nose dive.
I have always said that the reason I really like that Eastwood guitar is that it is in seafoam green. A guitar is a fashion accessory so get over it. People want to pose with a cool guitar. Big deal. Stop trying to make out that you are some type of muso that wouldn't choose a guitar by the way it looks and has to buy a guitar by the way it sounds. I have always chosen a guitar by the way it looks. You don't have to play well, you just have to look cool holding it. That is 90 percent of the battle done. Malka and I, between us, own loads of Eastwood guitars. In fact, not only guitars but an electric mandola, a tenor, and we have a baritone. That design of that guitar comes in everything from a baritone to a mandola and I think there is even an electric mandolin in that design and colour. They look quite cute when you put them all together. The baritone is one of the most evil-sounding guitars I have ever heard. If you just have a distortion box and a huge bass rig you don't need anyone else in your band, because you cover all the frequencies, haha.
Scene Point Blank: I do personally look at his website a lot and salivate over the guitars. I bought an Airline model Twin Tone guitar from them that I believe is an entry-level guitar. I love it. They do a very nice job of bringing back these guitars that once existed and fetch high prices for the originals. Essentially some would consider them oddball guitars from the past. I applaud Eastwood for bringing them back and reintroducing them to the world.
Colin Newman: The origin of why Mike brought back The Airline Guitar is because Jack White plays one. Although Jack White has an original -- the red and white one. The original one is made out of Bakelite. It seemingly sounds like shit, haha. So Mike has the idea of getting the styling down but making a better-sounding guitar.
The guitar I owned in the ‘70s was an Ovation Breadwinner which looked like something from space. It sounded terrible but it looked great.
Scene Point Blank: Do you still own it?
Colin Newman: Yes. I do still have it, but I don't use it at all.
Your album does not sound better on vinyl than on somebody's phone. If they are listening on their phone using headphones and that person is making a connection to the music just allow them to make a connection the way that they can.
Scene Point Blank: What about touring? Is that something on the horizon?
Colin Newman: No, not really. The next thing that will happen with Wire is a career-wide documentary that I believe will be coming out next year.
It is being worked on currently; however, it did get delayed by Covid.
Who knows? There may be no Wire after it, haha. Depends on how everyone comes out of it or even whether it comes out. It is an interesting period -- let's put it that way. There is no mad rush to get out and do stuff. We have something here -- you might call it something different there in Canada. We call it the cost of living crisis in Britain. It is a combination of Covid and the war in Ukraine which has made the cost of living more expensive and you can add Brexit on top of it for the UK. Apart from Russia, we have the lowest growth in the developed world and it impacts the industry. We are just at a point where we are coming out of Covid and bands want to get on the road and get out there. Audiences are less. There is no guarantee in the future especially when the energy crunch happens when it starts to get cold. The cost of energy has gone up hugely in this country. People will be struggling and going to gigs will not be their top priority even if they would like to. Attendance is not back to where it was pre-Covid for anything, I don't think. The work dried up during Covid and now the staff are coming back demanding higher wages, as they should. That means gigs are more expensive to put on
If you are in your twenties it is all a bit easier. Kids in their twenties don't expect to pay for anything and bands in their twenties don't expect to get any money; they are just happy to just play. That is an economy that can run on very little money. However, once you get to a certain age you need to pay bills and it costs money to be on the road. I think some problems are looming and it might not be the worst idea that Wire is not doing anything for a while. We did a lot of touring in the period from 2010 to 2020. We were three days away from a Toronto gig when we had to go home because of Covid. We had a sold-out show in Toronto and a sold-out show in Boston. The day we were driving up to Boston the Governor of Massachusetts said there would be no gatherings of over 100 people. We said, "Alright that's it…Done” I phoned up our agent and said I think we ought to go home. We were at a service station at the motorway, as we call it in Britain, on the way to Boston from New York and just two hours later we were on a flight. Finished like that. I got home and Malka said disinfect all your luggage, I put all my gear in the studio and left it for two weeks and didn't touch it. And within three days we were in lockdown.
Scene Point Blank: Yes, I believe the UK got hit harder first before it took grasp in Canada.
Colin Newman: Yes, you had quite a series of times with Covid as well, because I talk to very good friends in Holy Fuck (“We say ‘Holy F’ on the radio!”) from Toronto. We have had Graham on our show a couple of times and he spoke about what they are doing during the period of lockdown. He is the only one that lives in Toronto still. That went on longer in Canada than it did here but, of course, we had a stupid Prime Minister who thinks he can say anything and the world will just follow what he says. It is just bullshit. He’s gone now. His replacement is a less objectionable human but it’s the same crap politics.
Scene Point Blank: Yes, you are right. It did go on longer here but I think Europe went into lockdown before we did. It wasn't that long ago that we were allowed to take our masks off and of course, you probably heard about that big rally that happened at Parliament Hill with the truckers that went there to protest the mask mandates.
Colin Newman: It isn't that often that Canada makes the news but you certainly made the news on that occasion. It has been an interesting period. Just this year, however, I have started travelling again.
Scene Point Blank: Well, I hope if you get to the point of touring again that you will hit Toronto and then, of course, you could travel to Montreal!
Colin Newman: Montreal is a fantastic city! It has developed a lot.
Scene Point Blank: Yes, and musically as well. Quite a few bands have come out of that city.
Anyway, I am not trying to plan a little tour for you, haha.
Colin Newman: Actually, Immersion did play in 2018 and we did a North American tour hitting Toronto and Montreal. Montreal is not the greatest city for Wire. We also have an audience in Vancouver as well.
I felt, culturally, Immersion made more sense in Montreal even though we played smaller venues/audiences somehow I think we connected better. You know when you stand on the stage you don't know everything but you know something about how you feel about a place. You get an impression of a place by standing on stage.
Scene Point Blank: I don't want to eat up your evening chatting with you. I could go on forever. I appreciate your time and for giving me the opportunity to speak to you in length.
Colin Newman: Likewise. You have a very relaxed interview style, very similar to our radio show when we talk to our friends about music.
Scene Point Blank: If you make it to Toronto in some form, I will introduce myself in person.
Colin Newman: Sounds great. I look forward to it.
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