Swing Your Lanterns is another achievement in the large output of Ivan Julian.
Tales of yarn spun by a well-seasoned storyteller navigating the ocean of existence, guiding us through the waves, and breaking with the wake. Wallow and explore in the surf, fighting to survive in more turbulent waters.
Most will know Ivan from his time playing with Richard Hell and the Voidoids (The Foundations, Shriekback, Matthew Sweet, The Fauntleroys, The Clash to name a few) but rolling veins are never easy to secure and puncture. Always reinventing, exploring, learning and teaching. Ivan is laidback, open-minded and a great conversationalist. I was fortunate to talk to Ivan about Swing Your Lanterns, his history and his work in his studio.
Scene Point Blank: Was Swing Your Lanterns released initially in France about a year ago?
Ivan Julian: Yes, you are correct it was released in France. The whole nucleus of the company broke down as it was in the middle of COVID. They lost a lot of people at the time with people getting sick and then they lost their distribution -- essentially they lost everything. I really felt for them. However, I believed that this record was good and it deserved to be heard and out there. They agreed and stated that I should go out there and find someone that can do this justice because they couldn't at the time. I think they pressed up about 250 copies so if you can call that released!
Scene Point Blank: I had looked that release up on Discogs -- I think only three people have claimed they own it.
Ivan Julian: Well it might become a collector's item because of the low number of pressings. The cover also got revamped on the new release. There were typo errors that also needed to be altered.
Scene Point Blank: How did you get linked up with Pravda?
Ivan Julian: Well, they have been around for some time and have a great reputation. Like I said, when I spoke to my label in France (Ladtk) and told them I needed to find someone else, I began searching around The States for a good match. It was very important to me that whatever label I found pressed vinyl. Pravda stepped up to the plate and so far it has been going very well with them.
Scene Point Blank: With vinyl these days you never know when you are going to get it pressed. There seems to be such a backlog now. I have heard some of that is attributed to the majors now totally buying into the vinyl resurgence and clogging up the pressing plants.
Ivan Julian:That is very aptly put. I have been told it could be a month or more but essentially we are in line. [Since this interview it is now out on vinyl.] I have read that vinyl has been surpassing CD sales. It's interesting because at a time people were getting rid of their vinyl in droves and buying up CDs and now the exact opposite is happening.
Scene Point Blank: I am currently reading a book on Record Store Day and how they played a part in the resurgence. I have viewpoints on Record Store Day that I think it's good in one sense but in another sense, it also just caused the prices of vinyl to shoot right up. I'm 55 so I've always collected vinyl as that was my medium, but now all of a sudden, a record that would have been like $20 or $25 bucks is not uncommon to have a price tag of $40 to $50 bones.
Ivan Julian: I was reorganizing the CDs and albums the other day which lead me to think about how it is nice to hold a tangible product as it is part of the story. Or part of the creative piece. You can't do that with a computer file. Hence why I think people are realizing what they are missing, or what they once had, and want it back. It is similar to reading a book. Holding that object in your hand and flipping through the pages similar to a record and dropping the needle down and letting it play through to the end or flipping it over to hear the next side. The whole process is part of the experience as you actually feel something. Instead of some playlist that has been whipped around and created by a bot introducing you to something they think you will want to hear. When CDs got big I believe lots of people got rid of the pressing machines. Now they are scrambling to get them back up and running or build new ones; hence why I think there is a price surge. Supply and demand, essentially.
Scene Point Blank: I was talking to another musician who pointed out that the creation and pressing of vinyl is one of the dirtiest and not environmentally friendly at all. I have read that some companies are striving to make a cleaner product with less of a footprint. Full disclosure: I was at a thrift store and walked by their garbage bin and saw LPs sticking out so essentially dumpster dived (ha!) and grabbed Pretenders, Teenage Head and Grandmaster Flash LPs. I was saving the environment!
Ivan Julian: I agree, it's oil! The one saving grace is that we are not burning it and it stays around for a while and it doesn't go into the atmosphere, allegedly. However I do imagine the process is fairly dirty.
Scene Point Blank: I understand you are an avid reader and that much of your subject matter comes from books.
Ivan Julian: Yes. Of course I am a fan of short stories, I am a fan of biographies and some classical writing. I will essentially read the story and music will come into my head and it will slowly develop into a song. It also highly inspires me as well when I read something on a printed page. That medium I don't think will ever go away as there is beauty in the architecture of the print. It is something you can see, hold and watch the words there incorporated together. So all in all it inspires you sometimes or at least it inspires me.
Scene Point Blank: Yeah, I used to have a Kindle but it just wasn't the same as holding a book on printed paper. Reading will inspire me to actually seek out more books or to see the movie version and, many eons ago, when I wrote lyrics a book would be a direct resource or, as you stated, an inspiration. I read that you were a big Bukowski fan and that this release has a song inspired by his writing.
Ivan Julian: Yes, the song is called “Can't Help Myself.” It actually was released as a single. It could easily be attributed to a story of Bukowski’s Hot Water Music short stories. I am a huge fan of his. I think he is one of the best writers of the 20th Century. I am not so much a fan of his poetry; however, his short stories are amazing. He twists some normal situations into some psychedelic experiences.
Also, the way he depicts Hollywood as what it is -- opposite to it being Tinsel Town shiny, glittery and bright and full of Hollywood stars -- he paints it as the underbelly, like the way Hollywood actually is. For these reasons, I was very drawn to him. Most musicians are actually avid readers as we spend so much time waiting around. You got to do something! You are on the bus, you are waiting for soundcheck. So you usually have some book on hand and what is good about that is your fellow musicians usually travel with a pile of books so you learn that way also. One of the members of Shriekback actually had a copy of Kafka’s Metamorphosis on one of the tours. That is how I was exposed to that book. I couldn't actually put that book down and, in reality, read it a few times.
Scene Point Blank: There are certain books that I've gone back to. One of them, I'm not even sure if it was actually written by this person, but the author's name is Jerzey Kosinski (rumour has it he used ghostwriters). The book is called The Painted Bird and is about a little boy that escapes the atrocities of Nazi Germany and meets up with all these interesting characters. I bought the book for a friend year back and they were so offended they threw it out the bus window! I had relatives that would give me books like Kerouac and Hunter S. Thompson, Ken Kesey books and stuff like that. So at a young age, I was reading quite a bit. I too would read books over and over. I have read Catcher in the Rye a good 3 to 4 times, for example. It doesn't appear that kids today read as much as they might play video games and send emojis and Tik Tok videos, ha.
Ivan Julian: You know I tried to read The Catcher and the Rye and I couldn't get through it. I think I got halfway through and gave up. I will try again as it is a classic and famous for a lot of reasons. The Painted Bird is a book I have seen on my friend's shelves and another one I should grab a copy of. Sounds like an interesting story.
Yes, the evolutionary process, I guess, or de-evolution. I know I am going to sound like an old fart saying this but it's the problem I have with emojis. What am I, Egyptian? Are we going back to hieroglyphics all of a sudden? haha. Tree, limb, smile, foot, dog.
Scene Point Blank: You know it drives me fucking nuts when I write something and I get that thumb back. Honestly, are you that lazy that you can't type two words back?
Ivan Julian: Same here. A lot of my friends do that even in my age group. Write something back...like "Got It" or "Thank You" … Use a word!
Scene Point Blank: You had stated earlier that musicians end up, in a sense, isolating or waiting around – reading, as you gave as an example. However, how did COVID affect you? I know you have your studio. Did you spend a lot of time in the studio during this time frame? COVID seemed to really hit the entertainment business hard.
Ivan Julian: I took for granted that, as performers, we need other people to do what we do. You play a show: you need people in the room. If you have a studio and you want to do a recording session: you need musicians that will all be in the same room together. There is this really great photo I have of this jazz band that came in during COVID. One of the musician's wives put up plastic partitions between all the musicians. It looked like that scene from E.T. where they cover the whole house in plastic. I can't say that I read more than I normally do, because I was busy working on this record in my studio. I took my time to lock myself in there and play what I needed to play and beg who I needed to beg to come in and play whatever I needed at that time. However, across the street from my studio, there is this glass monstrosity apartment building. I noticed in one apartment there was this one person who at the beginning of COVID started off with two books. However, by the end of COVID, they had about 40-50 books piled on the ledge of their window.
Scene Point Blank: I have talked to a few people who said that although they didn't enjoy COVID, they did find that they were able to work on projects that they had never gotten around to doing like remastering and repressing past releases or working on new material. Sometimes, as one musician put it, “Life gets in the way of life.” One musician stated that he has been isolating his whole life so it was a cakewalk for him. He was like a guru of self-isolation, ha.
Ivan Julian: Yes, depends on your mindset. I cherish my moments like Christmas when everyone is away and there are no distractions and I can just get stuff done. It was a perfect state in a sense.
It was very, very frightening in New York City because you know we live on top of each other, regardless of your income status. Everyone is piled together. It was like one of those movies from the ‘40s about the Bubonic Plague or something. It was actually quite scary.
Scene Point Blank: I was in New York just prior to COVID by a half-year. It was just wall-to-wall insanity in terms of the number of people. I lived in Toronto for 30 years but it's like New York is an amped-up Toronto with more people and tourists. Unfortunately, we were staying right down in Times Square. I just wanted to get the hell out of there and go to other areas like Soho or Greenwich Village. I just couldn't believe how many drunk people dressed up like Elmo's trying to, like, to get money out of tourists as well as girls with their breasts painted like the American flags wanting to take pictures with you for cash.
Ivan Julian-: Yeah man, you don't want to go to Times Square, ha ha. I actually lived close to that area at one time. However when you live in NY that is the area you try to avoid! Right before COVID, you are correct: you had characters like The Naked Cowboy who would dance around Times Square for money. There was this one woman who discovered that there was no law in the books about women going topless in public.
Scene Point Blank: I thought that maybe they were not getting hassled since their breasts were painted with Stars and Stripes. A number of years ago there was a case in Canada where a woman discovered that there was no law against it. So you would see the occasional woman walking down the street with no top on in the beginning.
I saw a lot of kids going up to drunk Elmos and standing beside them while the parents snapped a photo then they would demand money from them.
Ivan Julian: Oddly enough, Times Square does not represent the real New York. You know, I really like Toronto. It is a cool city. It is much cleaner than here, for sure. Living in New York is like having a love-hate relationship. Yes, it can be an awful place but it is your awful place.
Scene Point Blank: Your studio is in Brooklyn though, correct?
Ivan Julian: Yes, that is correct. Mind you almost everything is in Brooklyn now. There are not many creative people left in Manhattan. Clubs and venues can't afford to be in Manhattan.
Scene Point Blank: The same thing is happening in Toronto. It is becoming more gentrified. In the early ‘90s I went to New York and went to the Marquee Club (or at least I think that is the name of it). Anyways it was for the Johnny Thunders memorial show. When the show ended at 2 or 3am the crowds spilled out to the street. There was a gay leather bar next door I think and you had the punks, the gays, and Hells Angels all spilling out into the street and shooting the shit. It was actually very cool. It was dirtier and grittier and you had all those sex stores and shows down in Times Square. The last time through I felt like I was in Disneyland. However, Toronto is the same in a sense. Clubs have closed down, rents have gone up, and condos are everywhere. When was the last time you were in Toronto?
Ivan Julian: Hmmm ,I have to think about that. I believe it was 2014. I was flown in to do some festival or something. Someone had told me a joke when I was there that the moving crane was Toronto’s state bird, haha. Yes, all that is gone now. A bygone era of NYC.
Scene Point Blank: Will you be touring this record release?
Ivan Julian: Absolutely. I am trying to put something together now because that is one of the main things I would love to do. Well, release the record and then play it live all over the place. I would love to come to Canada. I love playing there. I love playing live as I have spent my life doing it.
Scene Point Blank: Yes, I figured that with The Faunterloys, Richard Hell and the Voidoids, Shriekback, etc. The list is endless, haha!
In terms of your live band, would it be the same people that are playing on the album?
Ivan Julian: Well, that would be kind of impossible because there are four bass players on the record including myself. There are three drummers there are only two guitar players maybe three. The way I make records is I have the basic idea [for] the song and then I think about who is the best person to play on the song out of the people I know. Then I call them in and if it works out, it works out. And if it doesn't, I call someone else. On the song “Voodoo Christmas,” I had gotten this cheap organ and hooked up a drum machine and that really inspired the whole song. However, Florent Barbier had said, “Hey Julian, let me do something.” And he did and it turned out great, so now it is on the record. However, to answer your question some of the people on the record will be playing live, especially in the New York area including the backup singers and such. Regionally right now I have a band called the Magnificient Six and in fact, a lot of them are on the record...It can take many people to capture the different facets of songs. In February I did a record release in Chicago as that is where the Pravda label is. My good friend Nick Tremulis will be playing with me and part of his band will be the band I am using in Chicago. Nick plays on the record as well.
Scene Point Blank: With your history, you must have a wide selection of musicians to play live, tour with, or record with for that matter.
Ivan Julian: Yes I do, actually. However, it doesn't have to be someone of notoriety. It is if the person works for the part. Having played music for so long I have a huge Rolodex, haha.
Scene Point Blank: Did you ever play the Horseshoe Tavern in Toronto? I am sure you did as it is a famous haunt in the city and has been for many, many years.
Ivan Julian: Oh yes, I have played the Horseshoe.
Scene Point Blank: Apparently, somewhere in the bar there is a picture of Hank Williams passed out at a table at the Horseshoe. There is a lot of history contained in that place.
Ivan Julian: A picture tells a thousand words or doesn't have to, haha.
Scene Point Blank: Did you know the promoters The Two Garys? They were huge promoters back in the day.
Ivan Julian: Wow, of course! Are they still around?
Scene Point Blank: Gary Topp still does occasional shows. He recently brought over Jonathan Richman and was bringing over John Cooper Clarke.
Ivan Julian: Oh, yes John Cooper Clarke. I did a tour with him as well. He is a great guy and very funny. I am glad Gary is still around and doing stuff. That is amazing to hear.
Scene Point Blank:: The Garys were always selective in the sense that they brought over who they liked. I believe they were the first promoters to bring over The Ramones.
Ivan Julian: Yes, from what I remember depends on whom I was playing with -- whether they would book us or not. For some reason, they missed out on booking Shriekback. I believe it might have been because it was booked already by somebody else.
Scene Point Blank: Did Richard Hell and Voidoids play Toronto?
Ivan Julian: Hmmmmm…Yes we did. There is an infamous story about when we played Toronto. We are crossing the border into Canada and getting up to the border agent. The agent asks Richard "Do you guys have any drugs?" and Richard goes "No, we did them all!" Six hours later we were still there sitting as they took everything out of our car and scattered it along this hillside. I was like, “Richard, man, what were you thinking?” Haha. We eventually got in.
"We're crossing the border into Canada and getting up to the border agent. The agent asks Richard "Do you guys have any drugs?" and Richard goes "No, we did them all!" Six hours later we were still there sitting as they took everything out of our car and scattered it along this hillside."
Scene Point Blank: The Canadian border, for bands, can be hard to get over from what I’ve heard. One person I was speaking to had a charge from the ‘60s when he was caught with a joint. Thirty years later it still gave him problems getting over.
Ivan Julian: Yes it's hardcore. You have to have your "i's dotted and your t's crossed crossing the Canadian border and coming back as well. If you are a touring musician it's a tough road. If you are on an organized tour and have work permits and such it is definitely easier! I have been on tour buses where they have come on the bus and found a tiny little bud. This guy marched up and showed it to his superiors. This was a fairly huge show so we invited them all and that solved that problem, haha! However, it could have easily gone the other way.
Scene Point Blank: Well, marijuana is now legal in Canada and shops are popping up everywhere in place of coffee shops. Even up where I am in a smaller town I think there are 10 shops alone – but, yes, not advisable to assume that although it is legal here it might not be elsewhere. I think in some States they have gone that route of legalization.
Ivan Julian: Yes, depends on what state you are in. Yes, Colorado has been legal for a long time. New York is now legal. It is so weird you walk down the street and you don't even have to buy it as you get high off the air from all this really potent stuff people are puffing on, haha. The irony of it is you can smoke all over the place but if you smoke cigarettes they will arrest you, haha. The world is truly upside down.
Scene Point Blank: Yes, between opening and headliners now everyone goes outside to smoke a joint. I bummed a cigarette off a friend in a club and when I went outside to find a lighter I couldn't find anyone as they were all vaping. I had to find a person smoking a joint to get a light!
