Paul Leary is probably best known for being in the Butthole Surfers. However, his solo output and production work is another facet of the many faces of Leary. Butthole Surfers are in my top five live bands I have ever seen. How could you go wrong with films of sex change operations, a stripper, burning cymbals and vocals shouted through a megaphone? Drugs were not required to see them live but might enhance the overall musical and visual assault.
People bash around the term "Freak Flag" when mentioning the Buttholes in articles. Sure, some might consider them "weird" however many aligned with their musical take on the world. Weirdos united. Don't be normal. Normal is yawn-inducing.
Paul Leary's The History of Dogs and Born Stupid hold up with the Butthole Surfers’ releases while giving insight into Leary's contribution to the collective Buttholes.
Scene Point Blank had the opportunity to talk to Paul about his solo releases, Buttholes and hammers. Here is what transpired…
Scene Point Blank: Born Stupid was initially intended to be a Butthole Surfers release. When did you write the songs initially?
Paul Leary:I started putting ideas together about a decade ago, hoping for a new Butthole album. That just wasn’t in the cards, so I set about the task of finishing some of those ideas anyway. And then there were the two Butthole songs on the album, but done in ridiculous ways. Those were written in 1981, and the ideas to do them the way I did came to me during bicycle rides.
Scene Point Blank: Why do you think that The History of Dogs was panned by critics? Were they looking for another Butthole Surfers release? Do you think if you had released it under a pseudonym it might have been heralded as a masterpiece at the time? i.e. Lull Peery. :).
I personally enjoy the release, filed lovingly with my Butthole Surfers records.
Paul Leary: Well, my singing is atrocious. I’m literally the worst singer I have ever heard. I remember reading a review in Melody Maker that said, “That guy can really not sing.”
The album came from a dark place. 1990 was a dark period for me. It was right before the Buttholes started to “make it.” After nine years of constant touring in a band that brought bedlam each and every show, I was a little bit shell-shocked. That album is a long way from being a masterpiece.
Scene Point Blank: Why are you re-releasing it? Do you figure it might have taken the world 30-plus years to finally get it? Hey, it only took society 30-plus years for some level of acceptance of punk (mind you a watered-down version at that).
Paul Leary: Kramer bugged me about rereleasing History Of Dogs for the last couple of years. I was reluctant, but then he caught me on a good day. It was a good excuse to release “Speedo Man” and the original, unreleased version of “Pee Pee the Sailor” as bonus tracks. Both of those were recorded during the making of History Of Dogs.
Scene Point Blank: How did you get involved with Kramer and Shimmy Disc?
Paul Leary: I’ve known Kramer since the mid 1980s. He played in a band called Shockabilly that I was really into. So I was a fan, and later he became a fan of the Buttholes. He toured with us as our bass player in Europe and the U.S. We recorded part of Rembrandt Pussyhorse at his Noise New York studio. We’ve been friends ever since.
Scene Point Blank: Do you subscribe to the notion of pushing boundaries musically?
Paul Leary: I’d have to say no to that. I started out just wanting to punish people with my music. And punish myself for not being a stock broker like I wanted to be. It astounded me when we started to actually make it.
I don’t know if there are any more boundaries to push in music – [it] seems like an esoteric exercise in futility. And it would require thinking. I’m not good at thinking.
Scene Point Blank: Are the Cocky Bitches still around?
Paul Leary: Yes, we are, and we are in the middle of making another album. I have big hopes for Cocky Bitches.
Scene Point Blank: Do you collect weird kitsch: i.e. clown paintings, bobblehead dogs that adorn cars, etc?
Paul Leary: For some reason, I have a lot of hammers. Every time I need a hammer, I buy one. I don’t know why.
Scene Point Blank: Guess you never sing "If I had a hammer."
You have done the artwork for the re-release of History of Dogs. Did you do any of the other album covers for Butthole Surfers? Do you create visual art much?
"I think we were in a band as an excuse to make album art. I have a book of digital art coming out soon."
Paul Leary: I did the artwork on the early albums, through Independent Worm Saloon. Mostly Gibby and I collaborated on those. I think we were in a band as an excuse to make album art. I have a book of digital art coming out soon. A publisher out of Macedonia put it together. I think something like 160 images.
And now I make videos for my music. I have made five videos on YouTube. An iPhone and a green screen go a long way.
Scene Point Blank: When is the Butthole Surfers movie due to come out? How involved were you in the project?
Paul Leary: The goal is to have it ready next spring in time for SXSW. The band’s involvement is in interviews and providing ideas. I think we may even get producer credits, but we are giving Tom Stern and Noa Durban a lot of latitudes. They have the means and the talent and the motivation. Right now I’m going through our tape vault and putting together some remixes and stuff. I think I can have an album or two in the can to coincide with the movie release.
Scene Point Blank: Will the Butthole Surfers be destined to create another LP and or tour?
Paul Leary: No and no.
We’ve moved on. I’m in a really happy place right now.
Scene Point Blank: I read in another interview that the Butthole Surfers aligned with The Vandals which is a surprise to me, coming from the notion of not giving a fuck and following a formula. Were there other bands that you initially aligned with or helped you out in the early days of the Buttholes?
Paul Leary: I don’t remember aligning with the Vandals, but we listened to “Mohawk Town” on our boom box in the van a lot while on tour. One of our all-time favorite songs. And we played a show with them somewhere.
In those days there were two kinds of punk bands. One type had a message and required a lot of seriousness and stuff. The Vandals and the Butthole Surfers were the other kinds: ridiculous and irreverent.
Scene Point Blank: Flaming Lips opened for you on a tour I saw in the late ’80s in Toronto. They returned a short period later and played a small club to a small handful of people. Their smoke machine busted during the set and soon the club was filled with smoke and you couldn't see your hand in front of your face (although in my memory I thought it was their bubble machine that busted, haha).
Any memories of touring with them?
Paul Leary: I can remember plenty of times I couldn’t see my hand in front of my face during our own shows. I think maybe touring with us rubbed off on the Lips a little. My fondest memories of that tour were hanging out with Steve, their drummer.
Scene Point Blank: Butthole Surfers always seem to get cited as the ones that flew the freak flag the highest and you have expressed you have spent a lifetime trying not to be weird. However, have you thought that everyone else is actually weird and you are just highly creative and able to see stuff in a way that an average joe isn't?
Paul Leary: I always wanted to be normal. I’m a weird guy. I have accepted it -- probably why I have lashed out with punishing music so much. But I have managed to eke out the normal life that I always wanted. It is glorious.
Scene Point Blank: Casual fans most likely don't realize that you also wear the hat of the producer. How did you segue into that role? Which release are you the proudest of in terms of output?
Paul Leary: In the early days of the Buttholes, we couldn’t afford much studio time. We decided to put our money into equipment to record ourselves. I was the guy in the band that loved messing with that stuff. I still am. So I was kind of a producer for the Buttholes.
In the late ‘80s, I was a fan of the bluegrass band Bad Livers. I offered to pay for studio time to record an album if they would let me produce it. [It was] soon after the Meat Puppets signed to a major label. They liked that Bad Livers album and hired me to produce an album for them (Too High To Die).
That album was my first paying producer gig. It had a radio hit and went gold.
Sublime liked that album and hired me for their self-titled album.
Scene Point Blank: Do you have a holy grail of a guitar that you would like to own? What is your most prized possession: Big Muff Pedal from John Paul Jones?
Paul Leary: I pretty much have the guitars that I would want to own. My John Cruz Stratocaster is my main squeeze. I also love playing my Danelectros in the studio. I have a ‘78 Les Paul. Anything more holy grail than those would be something I’d be unworthy to play.
The Big Muff given to me by John Paul Jones is my most beloved pedal, both for its sound and for sentimental reasons. Next would be my orange and blue Super Fuzz and my TS808 Tube Screamer.
Scene Point Blank: You recorded with Roky Erickson in the ‘90s. This doesn't overly surprise me -- both being from Texas. Growing up, were 13th Floor Elevators an influence? What was the experience of working with Roky?
Paul Leary:13th Floor Elevators we’re a big influence.
We hung out with Roky a couple of times. We played a show with him once. We were on a tribute album of his music, but we never actually worked with him in the studio.
King spent a lot of time with Roky. King told me that one day he asked Roky if he was going to vote in an upcoming election. Roky replied, “I’m voting right now”.
Scene Point Blank: Are you personally a fan of “outsider” music? Or music that is so conceivably bad it is good (i.e. Mrs. Miller, Tiny Tim, Wing Han Tsang, Jan Terri)? Perhaps a future collaboration is imminent?
Paul Leary: I owned records by Mrs. Miller and Tiny Tim when I was a kid. I still listen to that stuff. I love The Shags. I never thought of it so much as “outsider” music, but I guess that’s what it is. I’m kinda outsider, too. At the end of the day, we are who we are.
"I never thought of it so much as “outsider” music, but I guess that’s what it is. I’m kinda outsider, too."
Scene Point Blank: Are you in touch with past members of the Surfers?
Paul Leary: I talked to Gibby for an hour this morning. I spoke with King and Pinkus yesterday. We are all brothers for life.
Scene Point Blank: Did you ever have the opportunity to meet Jingles the Dragon, Captain Candy, and Mr. Wiggly Worm?
Paul Leary:I think Gibby did Mr. Wiggley Worm as a kid. So, yeah, I met Mr. Wiggly Worm. Never saw the show. Mr. Peppermint (Jerry Haynes) was a good man and a very cool dude.
Scene Point Blank: Did you embrace early punk rock: early Texas punk rock (Really Red, Dicks, etc)? Who was instrumental in introducing you to the genre and what had you been listening to previously?
Paul Leary:I met Gibby at Trinity University and he introduced me to punk rock. I fell head-over-heels for it. I loved The Dicks and The Big Boys. The Big Boys gave us our first opportunity to play to an Austin audience. We weren’t even the Butthole Surfers yet. We were The Ashtray Baby Heads. Chris Gates of the Big Boys couldn’t remember the name and introduced us as the Butthole Surfers. We were henceforth known as the Butthole Surfers.
Scene Point Blank: Butthole Surfers have a history of pissing people off, either intentionally or unintentionally. Did you ever piss anyone off as a band to the point that they threatened physical violence? Amazing that music can provoke or bring out certain human attributes! Are humans truly a flawed species wallowing in their own shit of existence?
Paul Leary: We’ve been pelted on stage a few times. My favorite was one of our Reading Festival appearances. We hit the stage just as the sun was coming out after two days of rain. The mud pies were shock and awe. There were twenty in the air at once at any given moment. I dodged them pretty well until one hit my guitar right on the strings over the pickups. It hit and stuck.
Scene Point Blank: Was COVID a challenge for you musically? A lot of musicians found that the times dictated their livelihood drying up? How did you navigate these waters?
Paul Leary:l enjoyed Covid. My livelihood was completely unaffected. I’m quite happy to never leave my studio.
Scene Point Blank: How would you like to be remembered?
Paul Leary: I hope that the music I helped make will be enjoyed long after I’m gone. I hope the musicians I’ve worked with will remember me fondly.
Scene Point Blank: Parting thoughts?
Paul Leary: Thinking is over-rated.: )
Cheers!
